I mean in theory it'd be the same as divorced parents, which can be a successful way to raise a child, just without all of the old passion, feelings, and animosity.
I think it could work potentially, but it could also go horribly wrong too if anybody isn't honest or sets up expectations that aren't clear or that sort of thing. Though I guess it's sort of what Darcy and I are doing now to a degree - helping one another out and it's working out pretty well for me if you want to get down to brass tax.
Laura Hale and I were talking a couple of weeks ago when I was telling her that I thought I was ready to start the ball rolling on the kid thing because she has a connection at the clinic and I was hoping to get an appointment without having to leave town to find an opening before the new year.
She had decided she was ready to get the ball rolling on her own journey, too, and we got talking about logistics and, at some point, we ended up offering to save each other the trouble and expense of finding donors, so I'd only have to worry about finding a gestational carrier and she'd only have to worry about the invitro process. ...and then she suggested we just kill two birds with one stone and just...have the baby together and co-parent since we're such good friends anyway and since we were already both heading down the same road. ...and I don't hate the idea.
The doctors don't think it'll be harmful, per se, assuming we set ground rules and expectations right out of the gate. So Laura and I decided to talk to you and Derek and see what your thoughts were. We want as many trusted opinions as we can get before we make a final decision on how to move forward, either together or not, with this.
Oh wow that's way more than I was expecting from a can I pick your brain there, man.
So... I mean I don't think that there's anything harmful about the idea. Divorced kids are fine - and you'd, presumably, be more healthy than a set of divorce parents. I think as long as you either set very specific ground rules and expectations of one another in terms of parenting, financials, and how you want a kid raised it could be the best way for the both of you to have a partner in this without seeking an actual partner.
That would be the other thing I think you have to be clear and include in setting these expectations - what happens if one of you finds someone and how would that change things. Neither of you are probably going anywhere given she's dead where she's from too, but I mean... the biggest downside would be you'd be splitting time with someone. You'd have to share your kid - have you considered if that's going to be difficult for you to have times where your baby isn't with you but is with her instead?
Yeah, sorry. It seemed like a rip off the Band-Aid kind of question, but I didn't really know how to set it up, so...
I'm pretty sure that there's a whole legal aspect that requires contractual agreements and whatnot when you get into a surrogate situation and technically/legally speaking, that's what this would be. Surrogates and gestational carriers are basically the same thing except that the gestational carrier doesn't provide an egg. Either way, you have to sign contracts and shit, so I imagine that would include custodial arrangements and financials.
I don't want to speak for her, but I'm not attracted to her, and I never really have been. Not like that, so I don't see jealousy being an issue in that vein, but yeah, these are all good things to point out for us to talk about at some point before we actually make a decision. I have thought about that, though, because the baby would probably have to be with her more at first than with me if she decides to breastfeed, anyway. I was kind of kicking around the idea of inviting her to move in with Chrissy and I since we still have an extra room, at least while she's pregnant and then when she's nursing, but that's another good point to take into consideration.
Man, I'm pretty sure nobody could set that up perfectly so it's fine.
Then yeah if you square that all away and you both know you're committed to not being a dick to the other I don't see why it couldn't ultimately work. Laura doesn't seem like an asshole to me from what I've seen tangentially and even though you are I think you reserve that for just some of us. You get it in writing and you talk a lot and I think you know if you can trust and get along with her like that.
Well that's good at least - keeping that out of the mix will help. I'd definitely suggest talking with her about all of this. I know if I'd had the chance to be there for Ollie when her mother was pregnant with her and earlier I would've in a heartbeat, so it'd be nice if the two of you could come to terms on that one of you give a little for the other to be close and all. But yeah.... you've thought through a lot of it so I only have to halfass play devil's advocate over here.
The other big thing would be how you want this kid raised - make sure you don't have any big massive moral or whatever differences that way you don't have different views on how you'd shape your child.
No, she's not haha, she's pretty great. But yeah I'm pretty sure the fertility clinics won't do it without us signing a shitload of paperwork, including that sort of contract.
We have a ton more talking to do, for sure. We need to discuss parenting stances, living arrangements, custody stuff, personal boundaries and ground rules, and myriad other things but I just kind of wanted to get your read on how you thought it might be good or bad for the child involved. Everything else can be a discussion for sure, but I don't even want to go down that rabbit hole if it seems like we're being super fucking selfish and not considering how it might feel for a child to grow up with two parents who aren't together even though all their friends' parents are, and whose parents never WERE together, etc.
Consult your own lawyer too, both of you - make sure that everything on the legal side of things is clear and there won't be any surprises. Just to be safe, I'll give you the number to mine if you need.
That doesn't surprise me at all - I mean you're anal like me so of course you aren't just jumping at something with a ton more conversation, research, and preparation. I think if the two of you can get on the same page, over all of your bases with the legal side of things I don't see why you couldn't be perfectly suitable to raise a kid together. There are plenty of parents from our time that never should have been parents or stayed together but did and fucked their kids up and you and I both know it. There are plenty of single parents now, people going it alone, and plenty of other family makeups that didn't necessarily seem to exist when we were young.
I think if you and Laura give this kid love and communication and everything that's all that matters.
I'll find his number and send it to you later - he's one of the best around here.
It's easier for me to keep it simpler because I'm in a more objective position, honestly.
Any time, Eddie, seriously. And lets be real here, neither of you are stupid you're just afraid that getting what you wants makes you somehow selfish or inconsiderate and it'd take a lot to put either of you in that category.
I know, but still, I fucking appreciate the insight, man. You're awesome.
Yeah, I mean, that's pretty much exactly it except it's a little bit more nuanced. If I did it all by myself and just said fuck it and shelled out for an egg donor and a gestational carrier and took Laura out of the equation entirely (because I wouldn't dare use the egg from a werewolf and just...like hope that I could find a gestational carrier that was cool with that when I don't know shit about what that might mean for the carrier), then I might have a little less insecurity about whether I'm doing the right thing, but then again, maybe I would feel exactly the same way and you're completely right. Who fucking knows?
In any case, it's nice to have the extra insight from an outside party.
What exactly does being a werewolf mean for your kid? Also how did I not know this was a factor? Is it going to be dangerous for the child or you at all and will you even be able to do anything to help? Are you not worried about that element at all?
It means exactly what you think it means, man. The kid is more than likely going to also be a werewolf. That comes with pros and cons, though, the biggest and most important one being a pro: they'll always heal really fast and they'll never get sick.
I don't know how you didn't know...didn't you know Laura's a werewolf? She doesn't really keep that shit a secret, Stan. It'll be a little dangerous for me until the kid learns how to control it, but that's something Laura can and will handle. So I'm worried about it, but I'm also confident in Laura's judgment about how involved I can safely be with that sort of thing. I trust her to tell me when I need to let her do it, but eventually, the kid will be able to control it like she and Derek can and nobody will be the wiser. I just gotta let Laura do the bulk of the work getting the kid over that hump.
Is that why you want to do this with her above all else? Because it means your kid wont be able to get sick and will heal and it gives you a safety net, man? Because you know you don't need that, right? I'm sure you'd be anal as hell and get annoying every so often, but we all have our moments.
I haven't really talked to her much, truth be told - maybe in passing a few times - I think you forget how much of a hermit I was when I first came through the portal. Then I got Ollie and got pretty focused on doing the dad thing. I guess you really have thought this through, including the werewolf thing - and you really trust her. That's a good thing and I guess it makes sense and makes it easier to define an area that she' is sort of in charge of.
Not above all else. I was already thinking about it before she mentioned that part. That was an awesome bonus. What really drew me to the idea was the idea of having a coparenting partner. Plus it would be cheaper not having to figure out finances for an egg donor AND a gestational carrier. And, let's be honest, Laura's gorgeous. I could do worse as far as the second set of genes could go. I'd be a fucking moron to not at least consider the offer she put on the table.
...I do sometimes forget that, actually... Laura and I have been friends for a really long time. She's part of the Dead Folks Club with us. She's a really good person. If she were putting the offer on the table to you instead of me, for example, I'd wholeheartedly recommend you go for it.
I think I've kind of already made my decision and I'm just now realizing that I needed to talk it out.
I mean it is one hell of a bonus, I have a feeling it won't save you worry completely in the long run, but you know the kid will be healthy, most likely, which is something. I guess I get it, though, there's something reassuring about knowing that you're not going to do it alone and it's not the same when it's just having a support system. So I get it. I do.
Guess I need to get to know her a little bit better, but I think that you're right - you knew what you wanted all along, you just needed to talk it into the ground first to feel like you are okay to give yourself what you want.
Well, no, not completely. It'll help, for sure. But yeah. I mean, and Laura's been trying to figure out how she wants to go about having a child without a partner, too, so it's almost kind of like the stars aligned.
You should, you'd like her. She actually reminds me a little bit of you, but she also reminds me a lot more of Bev.
But yeah, you know how I am. A few years of therapy isn't going to completely undo a lifetime of being gaslit by the most important women in my life, so I'm going to doubt myself for a while on...everything, but especially on things related to bringing a completely new human being into the world and being responsible for him or her. So I appreciate you being a sounding board.
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What are your thoughts on the idea of platonically co-parenting with someone?
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I think it could work potentially, but it could also go horribly wrong too if anybody isn't honest or sets up expectations that aren't clear or that sort of thing. Though I guess it's sort of what Darcy and I are doing now to a degree - helping one another out and it's working out pretty well for me if you want to get down to brass tax.
Why?
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She had decided she was ready to get the ball rolling on her own journey, too, and we got talking about logistics and, at some point, we ended up offering to save each other the trouble and expense of finding donors, so I'd only have to worry about finding a gestational carrier and she'd only have to worry about the invitro process. ...and then she suggested we just kill two birds with one stone and just...have the baby together and co-parent since we're such good friends anyway and since we were already both heading down the same road. ...and I don't hate the idea.
The doctors don't think it'll be harmful, per se, assuming we set ground rules and expectations right out of the gate. So Laura and I decided to talk to you and Derek and see what your thoughts were. We want as many trusted opinions as we can get before we make a final decision on how to move forward, either together or not, with this.
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So... I mean I don't think that there's anything harmful about the idea. Divorced kids are fine - and you'd, presumably, be more healthy than a set of divorce parents. I think as long as you either set very specific ground rules and expectations of one another in terms of parenting, financials, and how you want a kid raised it could be the best way for the both of you to have a partner in this without seeking an actual partner.
That would be the other thing I think you have to be clear and include in setting these expectations - what happens if one of you finds someone and how would that change things. Neither of you are probably going anywhere given she's dead where she's from too, but I mean... the biggest downside would be you'd be splitting time with someone. You'd have to share your kid - have you considered if that's going to be difficult for you to have times where your baby isn't with you but is with her instead?
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I'm pretty sure that there's a whole legal aspect that requires contractual agreements and whatnot when you get into a surrogate situation and technically/legally speaking, that's what this would be. Surrogates and gestational carriers are basically the same thing except that the gestational carrier doesn't provide an egg. Either way, you have to sign contracts and shit, so I imagine that would include custodial arrangements and financials.
I don't want to speak for her, but I'm not attracted to her, and I never really have been. Not like that, so I don't see jealousy being an issue in that vein, but yeah, these are all good things to point out for us to talk about at some point before we actually make a decision. I have thought about that, though, because the baby would probably have to be with her more at first than with me if she decides to breastfeed, anyway. I was kind of kicking around the idea of inviting her to move in with Chrissy and I since we still have an extra room, at least while she's pregnant and then when she's nursing, but that's another good point to take into consideration.
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Then yeah if you square that all away and you both know you're committed to not being a dick to the other I don't see why it couldn't ultimately work. Laura doesn't seem like an asshole to me from what I've seen tangentially and even though you are I think you reserve that for just some of us. You get it in writing and you talk a lot and I think you know if you can trust and get along with her like that.
Well that's good at least - keeping that out of the mix will help. I'd definitely suggest talking with her about all of this. I know if I'd had the chance to be there for Ollie when her mother was pregnant with her and earlier I would've in a heartbeat, so it'd be nice if the two of you could come to terms on that one of you give a little for the other to be close and all. But yeah.... you've thought through a lot of it so I only have to halfass play devil's advocate over here.
The other big thing would be how you want this kid raised - make sure you don't have any big massive moral or whatever differences that way you don't have different views on how you'd shape your child.
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We have a ton more talking to do, for sure. We need to discuss parenting stances, living arrangements, custody stuff, personal boundaries and ground rules, and myriad other things but I just kind of wanted to get your read on how you thought it might be good or bad for the child involved. Everything else can be a discussion for sure, but I don't even want to go down that rabbit hole if it seems like we're being super fucking selfish and not considering how it might feel for a child to grow up with two parents who aren't together even though all their friends' parents are, and whose parents never WERE together, etc.
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That doesn't surprise me at all - I mean you're anal like me so of course you aren't just jumping at something with a ton more conversation, research, and preparation. I think if the two of you can get on the same page, over all of your bases with the legal side of things I don't see why you couldn't be perfectly suitable to raise a kid together. There are plenty of parents from our time that never should have been parents or stayed together but did and fucked their kids up and you and I both know it. There are plenty of single parents now, people going it alone, and plenty of other family makeups that didn't necessarily seem to exist when we were young.
I think if you and Laura give this kid love and communication and everything that's all that matters.
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...that is a wildly good point, actually.
Thanks, Stanley. I think I needed outside reassurance that we're not being fucking stupid about it.
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It's easier for me to keep it simpler because I'm in a more objective position, honestly.
Any time, Eddie, seriously. And lets be real here, neither of you are stupid you're just afraid that getting what you wants makes you somehow selfish or inconsiderate and it'd take a lot to put either of you in that category.
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I know, but still, I fucking appreciate the insight, man. You're awesome.
Yeah, I mean, that's pretty much exactly it except it's a little bit more nuanced. If I did it all by myself and just said fuck it and shelled out for an egg donor and a gestational carrier and took Laura out of the equation entirely (because I wouldn't dare use the egg from a werewolf and just...like hope that I could find a gestational carrier that was cool with that when I don't know shit about what that might mean for the carrier), then I might have a little less insecurity about whether I'm doing the right thing, but then again, maybe I would feel exactly the same way and you're completely right. Who fucking knows?
In any case, it's nice to have the extra insight from an outside party.
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What exactly does being a werewolf mean for your kid? Also how did I not know this was a factor? Is it going to be dangerous for the child or you at all and will you even be able to do anything to help? Are you not worried about that element at all?
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I don't know how you didn't know...didn't you know Laura's a werewolf? She doesn't really keep that shit a secret, Stan. It'll be a little dangerous for me until the kid learns how to control it, but that's something Laura can and will handle. So I'm worried about it, but I'm also confident in Laura's judgment about how involved I can safely be with that sort of thing. I trust her to tell me when I need to let her do it, but eventually, the kid will be able to control it like she and Derek can and nobody will be the wiser. I just gotta let Laura do the bulk of the work getting the kid over that hump.
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I haven't really talked to her much, truth be told - maybe in passing a few times - I think you forget how much of a hermit I was when I first came through the portal. Then I got Ollie and got pretty focused on doing the dad thing. I guess you really have thought this through, including the werewolf thing - and you really trust her. That's a good thing and I guess it makes sense and makes it easier to define an area that she' is sort of in charge of.
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...I do sometimes forget that, actually... Laura and I have been friends for a really long time. She's part of the Dead Folks Club with us. She's a really good person. If she were putting the offer on the table to you instead of me, for example, I'd wholeheartedly recommend you go for it.
I think I've kind of already made my decision and I'm just now realizing that I needed to talk it out.
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Guess I need to get to know her a little bit better, but I think that you're right - you knew what you wanted all along, you just needed to talk it into the ground first to feel like you are okay to give yourself what you want.
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You should, you'd like her. She actually reminds me a little bit of you, but she also reminds me a lot more of Bev.
But yeah, you know how I am. A few years of therapy isn't going to completely undo a lifetime of being gaslit by the most important women in my life, so I'm going to doubt myself for a while on...everything, but especially on things related to bringing a completely new human being into the world and being responsible for him or her. So I appreciate you being a sounding board.